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Thoughts on secession

What’s everyone’s thoughts on secession weather it’s intent is to restore the republic or create a socialist utopia? I’ve heard people both on the left and the right advocate for secession in the United States. There’s secession movements happening all over the place too everywhere from New Hampshire and Vermont all the way to California. Some want to break away from the United States entirely and create they’re own form of government and others just want to break away from one state or the other but still be part of the United States.

I think that if a group of people want to secede from a state or the US entirely, I think that they have the right to even if they want to form a socialist utopia but only as long as they don’t force they’re way of life on someone else.

Comments

  • edited January 28
    If your conservative there is not to many places to go. You have to carve out a territory to ensure the belief system in government is strong

    I have done the research on free state of New Hampshire. Maybe more places like that will happen. California is rumbling with talk of splitting. Washington is fighting east Washington vs Seattle liberals.

    Have to be careful or you Can have a Rhodesia moment.

    Why is it conservative systems produce great things and then the poor come to invade to milk the system of the wealth created by using social welfare programs.
  • According to the US Constitution, as of 1869 (around then), it has been written in the "states" agreement, upon becoming a "state" of the United States, they agreed that they could not secede from the Union for any reason.
    With that being said, any state can choose to stir up a whole lot of crud, but, the US Government would not have to recognize their separation. A war would be a bad issue as the seceding state would seek outside help after declaring their independence. This would cause all kinds of political chit. Any unhappy states that wanted to join the instigator would be treated the same by the US Government.
    This rumble may also bring in foreign countries. They would not care that the offending state(s) are acting illegally. No matter what occurs, no state can legally secede from the United States of America, so, they would be fighting a war without legal grounds.

    Bangfly59
  • Yep I actually signed the Free State Project statement of intent back in 2011 and been following the movement going on up there since 2010 or so and made some friends who have also signed the statement of intent and moved up there for it. New Hampshire has two secessionist groups, The Foundation For New Hampshire Independence and NHexit and both have been working hard the past couple years to at least get people talking about secession.

    I know that there was an offshoot of the Free State Project that focused on Wyoming but I think that fizzled out a few years ago.

    I agree that if a state were to secede the federal government probably would not recognize them as their own country or nation but they could get recognition from other countries and although that may not provide much value, it will legitimize the states decision to secede and it could potentially put pressure on the federal government to recognize them as well.

    There are no guarantees and secession could turn out to be ugly but one thing that I've heard several Libertarian and Conservative people talk about is that the right to secede is the moral high ground. What they mean by that is it would be like someone being married to an abusive psychopath. If someone was married to an abusive psycho, a normal person would say "well that person should just divorce the psycho".

    On another note, I was listening to Bill Buppert talk about secession and he challenged the audience to think of a country that was birthed via anything other than secession and he gave two criteria for what secession means and that is 1) the divorce of an area of a nation state or 2) basically a revolution where the control of the government changes hands in some way. Basically there are no countries today that were birthed in anything but secession is what his point was.
  • edited January 28
    Bangfly59 wrote: »
    According to the US Constitution, as of 1869 (around then), it has been written in the "states" agreement, upon becoming a "state" of the United States, they agreed that they could not secede from the Union for any reason.
    With that being said, any state can choose to stir up a whole lot of crud, but, the US Government would not have to recognize their separation. A war would be a bad issue as the seceding state would seek outside help after declaring their independence. This would cause all kinds of political chit. Any unhappy states that wanted to join the instigator would be treated the same by the US Government.
    This rumble may also bring in foreign countries. They would not care that the offending state(s) are acting illegally. No matter what occurs, no state can legally secede from the United States of America, so, they would be fighting a war without legal grounds.

    Bangfly59

    Secession is not the answer, what needs to happen is for the states need to evict all Federal agencies from their land and enforce clause 17 of Article of the Constitution.

    When the rebel states vacated their seat in Congress it left Congress no authority to pass any legislation what so ever. Congress did not have enough representatives to even form a quorum to pass any bills presented before it. In 1867 and 1868 the United States actually over threw all of the states' governments by occupation in the south and acquiescence in the north. The governments of the states were replaced at gun point whit puppet regimes (political subdivisions).


    There is nothing in the Constitution forbidding secession, though the Articles of Confederation states that the Union is the be perpetual, it also has no mention of secession. This means the Union shall always exist but there are no stipulations whether or not a state may or not leave the Union.
  • edited January 28
    Everyone here needs to read and understand the plain language of All of the founding documents especially the "Unanimous Declaration of 1776"., refered to by most as the Declaration if Independence.
  • If the US Const and Bill of Rights were followed, Secession wouldn't be needed.

    The 10th Amend had created a Safety Valve that obviated any need for Secession.
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