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New tax bill screws crypto traders

I know you guys aren't into cryptocurrencies but this new tax bill is going to make things extremely convoluted when it comes to reporting taxes. The guy in this video explains that before January 1st 2018 the only taxable event was when you cashed out your Bitcoin or whatever crypto for US dollars. The new tax bill makes it so that if you exchange Bitcoin for Litecoin or vice versa, that is now a taxable event. One of the biggest problems is that if you exchange Bitcoin for Litecoin or whatever crypto you now have to figure out what the fiat dollar value of that exchange was at that particular time and there is no easy way to do that. It would probably be easier to figure out what the US dollar value was of a trade from 1 Eruo to 1 Yuan than it would be to figure out from Bitcoin to Litecoin or vice versa. There's some people who trade crypto full time and they can consistently make anywhere from 60-100 trades per day and now they have to track all of those trades.

I make a little bit of money on the side from trading crypto's and the thing for me is that I don't have a problem reporting my profits/losses to the IRS even though they rape you with the capital gains tax but the thing is that now they're making it damn near impossible to figure out how much you're supposed to report. I think there are a lot of people who are in my shoes who trade cryptos and they also don't have a problem with reporting to the IRS but I have a feeling that if it's going to be this difficult to report profits/losses to the IRS, people will start saying screw it and just not even report at all.

It just blows my mind how the government can make these unenforceable gun laws or impossible to follow tax laws and expect everyone to follow them with a smile on their face. To the people who make 60-100 trades per day, I can only imagine how fun it's going to be to not only go through each individual trade they made throughout the previous year or even month and figure out how much they profited/lost on each of those trades. With the volatility of the crypto markets you have to be really quick with these trades so it's not like you can close out one trade and then figure out how much you made or lost on that trade because if you do you'll miss out on several other trades. If you consistently make only 60 trades per day and you do that consistently for 5 days a week that's at least 14,400 individual trades that you have through for the previous year.


  • One of my sales guys just quit a job that was making 75k a year.


    He is mining crypto currency and trading on a daily basis a lot of the lesser know currency. He has turned his entire garage into server farm and spend all day buying and selling currency.

    He is making good money and is pretty happy with what he is doing. Truthfully the article I read the other day where the value of crypto currency could be zero is probably more truth than not.

    Government has no way to regulate it so just like every other country who has tried to get away with getting off the petro dollar they will crush their dreams.

    Who knows though.
  • John Mcafee explained the value of bitcoin in a good way. He said that he knows 1 bitcoin is worth at least $2,000(can’t remember the exact amount but it was around there) because it costs him $2,000 to mine 1 bitcoin.

    I’m trying to get to the same place your sales guy is in but I feel like this new tax code is just like the gun control laws passed in CT, NY, and CO, they are unenforceable and impossible to follow.

    One guy said in the comments of that video that if the IRS decides to audit him, he’s going to use a bot trader and bot trade 5,000 penny trades per day and let the IRS worker sort through 1,825,000 individual trades. Basically he’s not going to make it easy for them.
  • This could be hilarious. How are they going to track this when the people in it know how to play games and hide better than most of the IRS?
  • That’s what I’m sayin ski I mean someone’s gotta call the IRS on their bullshit and put them on blast at some point.

    Even if a crypto trader wanted to follow this new tax code to a T it’s pretty much impossible to do so.
  • It's all way above my head, I'll just stick to the old fashion way of doing things and drag out my 12' gold sluice this spring and have a go at that, now that is technology that I can understand PLUS nobody knows if I've had a good day or not. How is the IRS going to track whether I shoveled 60-100 buckets a day of pay dirt concentrates ?
  • IRS can’t track crypto either. Not easily, if at all depending on its owner.
  • I thought that crypto's are serial numbered and can be tracked from their genesis to he current owner, as it was explained to me. That would seem to be pretty easy to track in cyberspace as opposed to a hard currency that you actually mined from the earth.
  • And how do they know who has it? Serializing something only allows it to be tracked if you know who has it.
  • The wallet address is what’s serialized. You can think of a wallet address as your bank account number or your email address.

    Here’s the thing, like I said in my post about how to maintain internet security, the goal isn’t necessarily to make your bitcoin transaction history 100% untraceable because that’s almost impossible. The goal is to make it so extremely difficult for anyone to track your bitcoin transaction history that it’s not worth the time and resources that one would have to put in in order to do so. That being said there are crypto wallets that automatically change your wallet address at regular intervals and this is a security feature.

    I heard a statistic that in 2016, out of the 100 thousand cryptocurrency users, only 800 of them filed taxes on their crypto earnings. And you can read about that here: https://cointelegraph.com/news/only-802-people-paid-taxes-on-bitcoin-profits-irs-says

    The thing is that the IRS can say you have to pay taxes on all of your crypto transactions but when they start auditing traders who use bots to trade and those bots are making a thousand trades per day for 365 days a year, yeah they’re not going to be filing taxes on their earnings because if they did they would have to report on 1.8 million trades at a bare minimum throughout the whole year and I would just love to see the look on whoever has to check that nerds work who uses a bot to trade.
  • If the IRS is serious about this then they’re going to find out real quick that they don’t know what the hell theyre talking about when it comes to crypto trading. It’s not like stock market trading or forex trading where it’s more straight forward. Cryptos were programmed with the purpose of having privacy and security be of the utmost importants and with that comes many different security features that makes this whole thing one giant mess to deal with.

    If the IRS wants to tax people that bad they’d be better off just taxing people when they convert their crypto into USD because at least then it’s more straightforward as to what the hell is going on.
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